MATT KRAMER of SAIGON KICK

Matt Kramer, for those of you who may not know (and there very-well may be a lot of you), was the original singer for the band SAIGON KICK. Remember them? They were one of the many hard rock bands to surface in the early 1990s that hit with a ballad. Their big hit was a song called “Love Is On the Way” (it was all over MTV and radio; it was hard to miss).

Matt split from the band before they could release another album over major differences with guitarist Jason Bieler; differences which he is not afraid to discuss…brutally.

Matt has a new disc out called War and Peas, and it contains a few songs written by former DOKKEN guitarist, George Lynch (another rocker who knows all about band conflict)

The answers we got to our questions were some of the most eviscerating we’ve seen yet, so enjoy the ugliness…

FoundryMusicSteve: Like many hard rock bands from the late 80s/early 90s, SAIGON KICK broke through with a ballad. "Love is On The Way" was pretty uncharacteristic of the bulk of the tunes you guys performed. Do you think the popularity of that song hindered any further success for the band, or you individually?

Matt Kramer: Love is on the way was fine…. People like ballads. I had no problem singing it. Or releasing it for that matter, had it been a 3rd single… See we were supposed to release “Hostile Youth” first, and we had just made this apocalyptic crazy video for the song in Mexico, with Director Marc Racco, who was a big part of Perry Ferrell’s “The Gift” film that we loved as a band. Just as we got back home to Miami, Atlantic calls and says, were changing the plan, Love is on the way is a hit, and we need to do a video for it now, and it went from me almost killing myself by hanging out of a helicopter over the pyramid jungles of bum fuck Mexico, to an air conditioned sound stage in Hollywood, doing a indoor shoot, catered, wardrobe, with 1993s prom theme video in the making.

That band could have been huge, but that hand will always outweigh the rest.

FMS: You left SAIGON KICK on pretty bad terms, and you've said some fairly unflattering things about former band mate Jason Bieler. Given the fact that so few bands attain any success in the music business, why bail on a band after you've hit the mark? Why not just hang in there, and try to make a little coin?

MK: As for Bieler, He’s pretty much the guy where anything he says, (which that fat fucking mouth is always spewing some bullshit), can be Voided if he says he was crossing his fingers behind his back. Remember that guy ! I don’t have time for corrupted power games, and control freak dickheads, when the band that WE 4 guys built, was completely lost because of Jason’s ego & complete Identity crises.

As for hangin out for the LOOT…

I believe that rock n roll is one of the only things that matter to me, so much, that I cant even think about staying in there for the trophy, or the LOOT, when the game is just over, and to make something that you love into a complete shareholder like cash cow, is to me like turning, on what you really love in life, ( which for my music I’M pretty fucking passionate about to say the least ). I hated everything about what Saigon Kick had become, as a band, as a business, as something I believed was bigger than all of us put together. Where would I be head wise now, if I had gone along with the sellout “Water” cd and later ones, after doing the first 2 rocking Saigon records, and completely bastardizing any real outlaw like rock n roll brotherhood, we once harnessed.

Cat, that just aint me, I’M sorry for nothing, and I am coming out now with “War & Peas” . It’s a lot more raw, a lot less harmonies than Saigon Kick, How could I have gotten that heavy now after releasing those later SK albums, which I’M in my opinion were not Saigon Kick, they just alienated our audience, And sold out.

So I’ll bite the bullet. Then or again.

FMS: At what moment, specifically, did you realize that you had "made it" (or at least attained some measure of success) in the music business? At what point did you know that the ride had ended for Saigon Kick?

MK: I realized that I MIGHT HAVE, made it when I got my first publishing advance for $85,000 at 21 years old.

When I realized it was over, was when I couldn’t touch my $85,000 but I could loan my manager Warren Wyatt, Tens of thousands of $ dollars of it over and over, to keep his fucking operation open, and phones and lights on. As well as finance the band which I still to this day have never gotten a dollar back from either one. That kept happening till the 3rd record, when I finally got hip, Realizing, that I sang a top ten hit, I’M broke, still making $200.00 a week including perdium which was a new raise from $150.00, and my phone bill to the band and business was $500.00 a month. I couldn’t afford rent in the projects on that budget, Sadly Phil, and Tom went through similar situations. And Phil Had a wife and baby at home, Ask them. It was completely corrupt. In house, No one was watching my back. When I was told we were recording a record that Jason wrote, not songs we wrote as a band , after “The Lizard” which was not our deal going into it. The songs sucked, they told me to sing it. And forget about writing any new songs or growing together musically. I thought this album would completely ruin Saigon Kick, it did, and I wrote a lot on those early Saigon albums, And I was growing and Jason didn’t like any attention drawn away from him, after we got the deal he wrapped up the management somehow. Made a bunch of ego guided decisions, his brother had to be the bands tour manager, and Jason’s gopher boy who when he fucked up, couldn’t be fired ! You wonder why I bailed ? That’s the honest truth, and I dare anyone to deny it. Jason forgot what got us the deal in the first place, It was a band drawing 2000 people to a wild show, not becoming Peter, Paul and Curly. Too top it all off, then decided that he hated what we worked so heard to become. Jason changed the menu. And somehow he convinced everyone else in the camp that it was a good thing to do, I disagreed, but I think that’s what he’s really good with. Manipulation.

I mean we had creative differences. Really no friction, what would EVER make you think something like that ?

That’s what happens when your 21, and just happy to have your dreams come true.

THIS GOES OUT TOO ALL BANDS:
It’s 6:06 do you know where your money is right now ? Probably in Hawaii.

FMS: You have stated that Jason Bieler is an "asshole" and an "egomaniac", but in an interview with RockRage, Jason says the following: "I was always a much bigger fan of writing music, the studio stuff and just being a part of music, rather than the rock star element of it. I liked touring but a really big part of it becomes a blinding grind after a while." How do you feel about that?

MK: That’s what happens, when you get to be 400 Pounds, and have no vibe what so ever, you tend to like the studio and writing for other people, a bit more than playing yourself out on the road.

Um, I mean, No really, I can see how it can be a blinding grind. Sure. No really.

FMS: Given the current state of the music business (record company consolidation, hard rock being ignored by radio and MTV, internet piracy), how optimistic are you that you can establish (or re-establish) yourself with "War & Peas"?

MK: “War & Peas” is a heavy rock album , it definitely sounds different than SK, So check your ears in at the door, cause its more like the 70s glam T-Rex, Mott the Hoople, Sisters of Mercy, Bowie-Ziggy thing, but with the pipes a lot louder, I was going after the sound I liked as a kid, but louder, more aggressive, darker , and what good rock n roll should be, slightly underground. On this album I have gone too far, the line has been erased and there’s no turning back now. It’s experimental, Heavy, lyrically daring, and on My own little Indy label, for now fuck corporate labels, they got their own problems for a while. I want the real hard core rock audience on this one. That’s why Rock and Metal sites like you guys are growing in this business, It’s a no brainer, supply and demand, in a second flat, I think it’s fucking great, these new rock sites are like a cross between Howard Stern, and Wayne’s world, and a LOT of people are hitting these sites, So if Mtv doesn’t play “War & Peas”, or Big conglomerate radio syndicates don’t add it. Big fucking deal, I’M building back slow, strong and heavy as a tank, Rock is back to the underground, where it should be, They probably wouldn’t add it even if I was on a major. The timings not right, I’M trying to mix a little art – sex - metal – and horsepower. Rock fans will still find it, and support it. So when the corporations spit on you, and rock is out again, for some crappy new fad. You’re fucked, if you don’t have a real fan base. Really, ask Hootie and the blowfish.

One day maybe, when the companies have all become one and settled, and I’M established with my absolute vision of my own future, maybe then a record company will know what the hell I’M all about, and allow me freedom to grow and still deliver what it takes, to get that big machine too roll, that will be the day I go that route. Till then, I’ll be following that old school fan in me, and my gut says, target that die hard, ever sworn, rock audience.

FMS: If there was one celebrity (don't say Bieler; we already know you don't like him) you could punch in the face as hard as you could without any repercussions/punishment/lawsuit, who would it be and why?

MK: You really like bringing up Bieler even when you don’t want me to talk about him don’t you ? (Yeah, I know…We like stirring up the shit, but when the water starts to get murky, we like moving onto another fish tank)

How about The Dell kid !! Your getting a bullet dude !

Or that fucking Ditech.com guy! Even better !! where you really lose an arm and a leg.

I hate commercials, Punch in the face ? How about I get out my Glock, instead. ?

And we make a new edgy target commercial ! ? ! …

FMS: What current rock acts, if any, are you currently listening to?

MK: Audioslave is pretty cool, it’s growing on me just different, not what I expected, but then again I just made a very unexpected sounding album. Cold play writes some good tunes, Slip knot has a cool heavy thing going on (especially live). Some pretty cool stoner rock out there also. And that excerpt of Yngwie Malmsteen threatening that chick’s life on the plane, I thought that was his most brilliant new comeback. Have you heard it ? those verbal sweeps, and hammer on like tongue lashings, would even make Jeff Scott Soto proud. I wish all of my fuckups went so well. More brilliance for Yngwie.

FMS: You wrote a few tracks on "War & Peas" with George Lynch, formerly of DOKKEN. What was that experience like? Did you ever witness any of the Don Dokken/George Lynch feuding?

MK: Me and George got along great. Laughed a lot, worked a lot. Never saw or heard him and Don fighting, I heard all the ugly scoop though, but he felt a lot better after he heard how fucked I got by Saigon Kick.

FMS: It could be said that your former bandmates have moved on to greener pastures professionally (Bieler has a production career and his own label, Phil Varone joined Skid Row, Chris McLernon launched his own multimedia company). Do you get jealous of your former 'mates success? When's the last time you had any contact with any of them?

MK: Well My Indy record company, Lascivious records, Backed and owns my first solo album, “War & Peas” which as different as it is, compared to SK, it’s getting great reviews by the rock critics, my web site is bangin 50,000 hits a month, its also my first engineering and producing job, and is being called critically acclaimed, direction wise, I went completely rock hard, and best of all nobody told me to sing a love ballad. So greener pastures here I come to piss on you.

Saigon Kick - was a very talented band both individually and collectively. I really only talk to Phil these days, I see him all the time, we’ve been going out a lot lately, and getting pretty wild. Great drummer, definitely better friends now than ever. The other guys put their time into other things, and have done well, I would expect no less, and as far as me getting jealous, not at all. I’M as big as what I’M attached to. Saigon Kick will always be a part of me. We all just lost a great band.

FMS: Hypothetical situation: A major label offers you a multi-million dollar contract for an album and tour. The music will get promoted all over radio and music television, but the catch is this: You've got to tour with Saigon Kick on an 80's glam metal package tour. Do you suck it up and take the cash, or tell them all to go screw?

MK: Maybe without um…. – but that’s hypothetically

FMS: I saw you guys open for EXTREME at the Orpheum in Boston. They looked like they gave you a pretty free reign of the stage, and I've heard they were always a decent group of guys? Who were the kindest bands you worked with? Who were the nastiest/most selfish?

MK: Extreme is the coolest band, never compared dicks, just gave you a great show every night, and wanted no less from their opener, and they closed there encore with SK shirts on every night of the tour. The Best Guys.

Ozzy was cool

Ramones were cool

Cheap Trick was cool

On the other hand…

Ratt on our first tour ever (sadly when I was 16, for some reason, I was their biggest fan) they were definitely uncool, to put it mildly, (except Robin Crosby R.I.P. The band was putting him on the wagon, so he would come on our bus, and drink all of our beer, and he was the only one to hang, COOL fucking guy though ! ) But the other guys, we were told on the first day, not to talk to the band, crew, management, they wouldn’t let us stay in the same hotels as them, or be in the venue at anytime that they were present, totally snuffed us, and it was like 1 degree out that winter up north. We had to hang in the bus freezing while they were in the venue. We weren’t even allowed to go in to watch them. Nice first tour ! but we made up for it . trust me.

Kings X what a bunch of pompous fucks those no rock and roll, holy rollers are, they squashed us after we blew them away every night, after their usual 6 hour long sound check, they checked one day, 25 minutes into our set, decided to do their usual 2 ½ hours, and shortened our set at the Trocadero in Philly, to a mere 20 minutes, instead of doing 2 hrs themselves and letting us have our 45 minutes, when we made it very known that we had important radio people coming to the show, we played one extra song and they pulled the power and lights on us, in the middle of the extra song !, then Jason did one good thing in his life, and choked their tour manager, and we gladly got booted off that shitty tour.

PS we had this song “Love of god” on the first cd, about the trials and questioning of religion, Kings X really supported us then, not realizing we were more poking at religion, and I think they took us as a holy rollin bunch a boys like they were, and were they surprised when they met us. The only confession booths we saw, took a roll of quarters, and had 400 channels in them, on old 42st, And then they saw our show, where I was exposing myself almost nightly on that tour.

Christ that was a line up.

FMS: You've played in nightclubs all over the country. Would you ever blow off a 10-foot sparkler if playing in a club in front of 300 people? Who do you think is at fault for the tragic Rhode Island nightclub fire that killed almost 100 people?

MK: My name was signed on the wall at that club. Phil, and myself, did 2 short SK reunion tours for fun, and that black foam on the walls always raised an eyebrow, every time I saw it. Phil didn’t even want to play in that little room that the drummer went into on that stage, so we pulled the frontline way up that night. That whole tragedy was a little short on foresight in many ways , and on all sides, But I did hear that Kiss tribute bands did pyro there many times, without problems, time and fate just lets us all know, what not being on our toes every second can bring.

FMS: If you knew the world was going to end TOMORROW (shit blowing up, bodies flying around, lots of fire, etc), what is one thing you'd make sure to do TODAY?

MK: Mother fucker I’ve done it….

FMS: A lot of up and coming musicians make silly mistakes as their clawing their way up the music business ladder (drug/alcohol abuse, signing bad deals, pissing away money). If you could go back in time, which, if any, of your mistakes would you rectify?

MK: Didn’t waste away yet on alcohol, drugs are cheap in Miami, and I never had any fucking money from SK to piss away anyway.

So I guess I would have just gotten a little more of what was MINE.

CAUSE I’LL NEVER CHANGE

Check out War & Peas at mattkramer.net